IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

In-Game Threads, Out-of-Town Scoreboard updates, Yankee-watching and seething. Telling words come in the heat of battle.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Tue Sep 19, 2017 8:24 am

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Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Ashie62 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:36 pm

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Do the Mets offer Harvey arbitration?

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:47 pm

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I was thinking I'd non-tender him, but John Harper pointed out the other day that the Mets can give Harvey a contract (through arbitration or otherwise) and then get out of it (mostly) by releasing him, if necessary, at the end of spring training.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Tue Sep 19, 2017 12:56 pm

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I remember we once had a discussion here, probably in 2015 -- because it was after Harvey came back from TJ surgery, he was pitching well, and it was before his second serious (thoracic) setback. We were discussing whether Harvey should sign a long term contract or wait for his inevitable big free agent payday. I suggested that given Harvey's medical history, it wouldn't be a bad idea for him to sign a contract in 2015. That contract wouldn't have been as lucrative as his FA contract, had he continued to enjoy relatively good health going forward, but it would have eliminated a lot of health risk going forward, especially given Harvey's TJ history.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby G-Fafif » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:06 pm

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:I remember we once had a discussion here, probably in 2015 -- because it was after Harvey came back from TJ surgery, he was pitching well, and it was before his second serious (thoracic) setback. We were discussing whether Harvey should sign a long term contract or wait for his inevitable big free agent payday. I suggested that given Harvey's medical history, it wouldn't be a bad idea for him to sign a contract in 2015. That contract wouldn't have been as lucrative as his FA contract, had he continued to enjoy relatively good health going forward, but it would have eliminated a lot of health risk going forward, especially given Harvey's TJ history.


The Mets locked up Lagares, and Lagares has been a disappointment (and injured often). The Mets locked up Wright, and Wright hasn't been able to perform. The Mets reportedly talked to Duda about a long-term deal after he came off his best year and Duda apparently demurred.

It doesn't seem these things ever quite work out for team and player simultaneously. That's not necessarily a trend or pattern, just makes one realize how iffy picking what's behind the curtain as opposed to what's inside the box can be.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:11 pm

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G-Fafif wrote:
batmagadanleadoff wrote:I remember we once had a discussion here, probably in 2015 -- because it was after Harvey came back from TJ surgery, he was pitching well, and it was before his second serious (thoracic) setback. We were discussing whether Harvey should sign a long term contract or wait for his inevitable big free agent payday. I suggested that given Harvey's medical history, it wouldn't be a bad idea for him to sign a contract in 2015. That contract wouldn't have been as lucrative as his FA contract, had he continued to enjoy relatively good health going forward, but it would have eliminated a lot of health risk going forward, especially given Harvey's TJ history.


The Mets locked up Lagares, and Lagares has been a disappointment (and injured often). The Mets locked up Wright, and Wright hasn't been able to perform. The Mets reportedly talked to Duda about a long-term deal after he came off his best year and Duda apparently demurred.

It doesn't seem these things ever quite work out for team and player simultaneously. That's not necessarily a trend or pattern, just makes one realize how iffy picking what's behind the curtain as opposed to what's inside the box can be.


True. Of course, for Harvey to have signed a contract in 2015, the Mets would have had to offer one. The Mets didn't. Was that because the Mets had no interest in locking up Harvey then, or because Team Harvey sent out unambiguous signals that Harvey had no interest in committing?

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:10 pm

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Well, Steve Boros almost never lets his clients agree to a contract that will delay free agency. The Mets may have tried to get him to give on that, or they may have figured it was hopeless and not bothered to try.

My feeling is that the plan would have been to trade him after the 2017 season if things hadn't played out so poorly, both for Harvey himself and the pitchers who might have replaced him in the rotation.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby G-Fafif » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:34 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:Well, Steve Boros almost never lets his clients agree to a contract that will delay free agency.


Ex-A's manager Steve Boros? Talk about your Alderson puppets!
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:37 pm

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I got his name wrong, didn't I? I'm turning into Ralph Kiner!

It's Scott Boras, right?

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby G-Fafif » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:41 pm

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:course, for Harvey to have signed a contract in 2015, the Mets would have had to offer one. The Mets didn't. Was that because the Mets had no interest in locking up Harvey then, or because Team Harvey sent out unambiguous signals that Harvey had no interest in committing?


The Mets had less to lose and the Harveys more to gain, conceivably, by waiting. I don't know if anybody talked to anybody, but I can't imagine it got too far. I do wonder, for the hell of it, had TJS never occurred and Harvey continued along his 2013 trajectory in 2014 if the lock-him-up instinct would have overtaken ownership. If we are to assume, as a hypothetical, that a Cy-caliber Harvey pitches that season, then we can figure the Mets would have made a little extra progress beyond the strides they took (though they probably wouldn't have had Colon, who was quite helpful, so maybe the overall picture wouldn't have developed that much brighter). With Cinnamon Boy retiring in the Bronx, I can picture Jeff deciding, "This is our chance to take back the town, we can't lose Harvey to the MFYs," though I can't picture Jeff calling them the MFYs.

All conjecture, the kind of stuff I wouldn't subscribe to a streaming service to watch, but we're a hundred games out with a dozen left to play.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby G-Fafif » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:43 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:I got his name wrong, didn't I? I'm turning into Ralph Kiner!

It's Scott Boras, right?


Correctamundo.

Just means that, like Ralph, you've seen a lot of baseball. I'm pretty sure I spent half a year thinking the Mets signed Joey Cora.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:52 pm

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Oh. I thought it meant I could start dating beautiful Hollywood actresses and driving a Cadillac.

I don't think Ava Gardner would like it if I came by to pick her up in my Honda Accord.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby G-Fafif » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:57 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:Oh. I thought it meant I could start dating beautiful Hollywood actresses and driving a Cadillac.

I don't think Ava Gardner would like it if I came by to pick her up in my Honda Accord.


I hear Ava is a sucker for things from the future.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:48 am

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Ben, can you please fix my vote for this game. I had a brain fart and put
Aoki's beer in the 'Name' field.

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:22 am

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Gracias

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:22 am

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Gracias

Re: IGT - 09/18 - Mets at Fish - Golly Gee, Going for Three

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:01 am

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