IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:30 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:38 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:Does Harvey get a blown save?


Yes


How does that work? Syndergaard can't get the Win because he started but pitched less than five innings. If Syndergaard isn't eligible for the win, Harvey, who immediately followed Syndergaard, isn't eligible for the Save. And if Harvey isn't eligible for the Save, he couldn't have blown the Save. I don't know if I'm right but I find my logic to be flawless.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:41 pm

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By the crude instrument which is the Blown Save, Harvey came in with a lead and didn't protect it, ergo 'BS'
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby John Cougar Lunchbucket » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:44 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:45 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:By the crude instrument which is the Blown Save, Harvey came in with a lead and didn't protect it, ergo 'BS'


So if the visiting team scores a run in the first, and the visiting pitcher then gives up three runs in the bottom of the first, does the starting visiting pitcher get credited with a blown save?

OE -- Better yet, I thought a pitcher had to be pitching in a save or potential save situation to qualify for a blown save.
Last edited by batmagadanleadoff on Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:47 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:49 pm

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It's easier to just look this stuff up.

http://m.mlb.com/glossary/standard-stats/blown-save


Blown Save (BS)
Definition

A blown save occurs when a relief pitcher enters a game in a save situation, but allows the tying run to score. The run does not have to be charged to that pitcher. If a reliever enters with a man already on third base, and he allows that runner to score the tying run, he is charged with a blown save.

Although many blown saves occur in the ninth inning or later, they aren't limited to the ninth inning. If a pitcher enters in the eighth inning and surrenders the tying run in a save situation, he is given a blown save -- regardless of whether he pitches the ninth. A pitcher can still receive either a win or a loss (or a no-decision) after recording a blown save, depending on the ensuing results.

Blown saves are used as a tool to evaluate the effectiveness of a closer. After all, it is a closer's job not to let the tying run score. Therefore, closers who have a high rate of blown saves per save attempt typically aren't doing their jobs very well.

However, not all blown saves are created equal -- after all, entering with a three-run lead in the ninth and entering with a one-run lead and a man on third in the eighth are both considered save situations. It's important to remember this when assessing closers based on their blown saves.
Origin

Blown saves were introduced as a statistic in 1988 as a counterbalance for the statistic "saves."

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:50 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:51 pm

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:
Frayed Knot wrote:By the crude instrument which is the Blown Save, Harvey came in with a lead and didn't protect it, ergo 'BS'


So if the visiting team scores a run in the first, and the visiting pitcher then gives up three runs in the bottom of the first, does the starting visiting pitcher get credited with a blown save?

OE -- Better yet, I thought a pitcher had to be pitching in a save or potential save situation to qualify for a blown save.



Y'know, I rescind what I said earlier (both the Edgy and to you). I was thinking of a situation where Harvey had inherited a lead which he of course did not, so no BS in this case.

I have however seen BS assigned to relievers who worked lost leads as early as the 4th inning. I've never see a 2nd inning BS because a reliever that soon is so rare and even more so when your team
is ahead, but the principle still stands.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:57 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:I have however seen BS assigned to relievers who worked lost leads as early as the 4th inning.


If this is true, it's inconsistent and irreconcilable with MLB's definition of its own rule. Unless the rule has since changed. Was there ever a time during the Save era when a starter pitching just three innings could be credited with a Win?

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:03 pm

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Not that I know of, but relievers in the 8th & 9th innings can get credited with both a blown save (for losing a lead) and then a Win (for still being the pitcher of record when they go back ahead) so why
should that not apply to a reliever in the 3rd or 4th.

I mean the whole concept of the 'Blown Save' is flawed anyway - so who really cares?
It matter only to "closers" as we roughly define that job but the BS gets hung on middle relievers all the time, guys who can only blow the save of get 'credit' for the even less meaningful 'Hold'.
The set-up types get hung with BS all the time but rarely stick around long enough to get a Save itself to balance those out.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:04 pm

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Familia vs. De Aza. Got to be some old bad blood there.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:04 pm

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Edgy MD wrote:Familia vs. De Aza. Got to be some old bad blood there.


Why?
Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby 41Forever » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:08 pm

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Nice! Good inning for Familia.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:12 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:
I mean the whole concept of the 'Blown Save' is flawed anyway - so who really cares?
It matter only to "closers" as we roughly define that job but the BS gets hung on middle relievers all the time, guys who can only blow the save of get 'credit' for the even less meaningful 'Hold'.
The set-up types get hung with BS all the time but rarely stick around long enough to get a Save itself to balance those out.



They may not stick around long enough for the Save, but they'd qualify for the Save if left to pitch to game's end. And it's the qualifying for the Save that is required for BS eligiblity. You can't assume that they're in only for a Hold even if true.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:15 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:
Edgy MD wrote:Familia vs. De Aza. Got to be some old bad blood there.


Why?

Just imagining fake drama.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:17 pm

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The old one-hit-since-the-third strategy in full effect tonight.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:21 pm

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But you can get a save for pitching the final 6 or 7 innings of a game too, not just the final 2 or 3.
Now you can't get a Win AND a Save so Harvey's theoretical 'W' would take precedence over an 'S' but, had he come in with a lead and then left without it, there's nothing stopping that from being a 'BS'
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:22 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:32 pm

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Frayed Knot wrote:But you can get a save for pitching the final 6 or 7 innings of a game too, not just the final 2 or 3.
Now you can't get a Win AND a Save so Harvey's theoretical 'W' would take precedence over an 'S' but, had he come in with a lead and then left without it, there's nothing stopping that from being a 'BS'


1-- Yes, but wouldn't that have to be an extra inning game? Otherwise, a six or seven inning save means a two or three inning win for the starting pitcher, which isn't allowed.

Here's a strange fact pattern. The starter pitches one inning. The next pitcher pitches just the second inning and leaves with a one run lead. The next reliever pitches to game's end. There is no more scoring after the second inning. In that situation, the official scorer can award the second pitcher with the Win and the third pitcher (7 IP's) with the save. Of course, the scorer should award the seven inning pitcher with the Win, but technically, you could have a seven inning save in a nine inning game here.

2 -- But Harvey can't get the Save no matter what because he'd have to pitch to game's end for the Save, and Syndergaard isn't eligible for the Win.
Last edited by batmagadanleadoff on Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:35 pm

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Edgy MD wrote:Well, we just got Murphed.


I gotta tell ya, I love the Murph. Still.

Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Frayed Knot » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:36 pm

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All three outs in that inning were 3-Unassisted
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:46 pm

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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby Edgy MD » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:48 pm

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Fglafddkjp.
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Re: IGT 9/23 Strasburg v One inning Pete

Postby 41Forever » Sat Sep 23, 2017 9:49 pm

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Murph is a nice guy. But he sure does kill us.

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