Politics in 2017

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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:45 pm

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Nymr83 wrote:It is largely irrelevant whether a subpoena was issued or not - DOJ can do so on the flimsiest of pretenses. What would be relevant is if deutsche bank turned anything incriminating over or if Trump tried to mess with the investigation in response


Insofar as Deutsche Bank isn't going to voluntarily turn over anything incriminating, or anything at all because that would violate confidentiality and privacy requirements --- anything Deutsche turns over would be in response to a subpoena.

So I don't see how the issuance of a subpoena is irrelevant. Mueller can't issue one on flimsy pretenses because Deutsche would successfully challenge the legality of the subpoena, which should get quashed, if, as you suggest, it was flimsy.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:50 pm

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The day that Deutsche starts to disclose their customers records in response to flimsy subpoenas is the day that all their billionaire customers and accounts walk out the door. I can't believe you're an attorney. Are you sure you're not the hamburger flipper?

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Lefty Specialist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:33 pm

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Democrats on the Intelligence committee tried to get records from Deutsche Bank earlier this year and since they didn't have a subpoena, they were told to pound sand by the bank.

But Mueller has a number of forensic financial specialists on his team. And they'd be remiss if they HADN'T subpoenaed Deutsche Bank records. Also, banks may not be allowed to tell their customer about the subpoena if they're ordered not to. The lawyerly denial kind of skirts things, both from Trump and the bank.

I'd also imagine Mueller's got his tax records for the last 20 years by now, too.
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:39 pm

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I think it would be a little hard to justify two decades worth of tax returns.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Ceetar » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:39 pm

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d'Kong76 wrote:I think it would be a little hard to justify two decades worth of tax returns.


You'd need to establish a history of finance to see where the current discrepancies are.
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:42 pm

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Motion denied, Counselor.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Nymr83 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:51 pm

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Lefty Specialist wrote:Democrats on the Intelligence committee tried to get records from Deutsche Bank earlier this year and since they didn't have a subpoena, they were told to pound sand by the bank.

But Mueller has a number of forensic financial specialists on his team. And they'd be remiss if they HADN'T subpoenaed Deutsche Bank records. Also, banks may not be allowed to tell their customer about the subpoena if they're ordered not to. The lawyerly denial kind of skirts things, both from Trump and the bank.

I'd also imagine Mueller's got his tax records for the last 20 years by now, too.


"pound sand" would be the appropriate response without a subpoena. the bank could get in trouble (contractually) sharing any information when not legally required to do so.

i'd certainly hope Mueller has the tax returns or else he is doing a piss-poor job. i'm also glad WE don't have hte tax returns through Mueller's team as that would also indicate he is doing a piss-poor job.
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:00 pm

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Nymr83 wrote:"pound sand" would be the appropriate response without a subpoena. the bank could get in trouble (contractually) sharing any information when not legally required to do so.

i'd certainly hope Mueller has the tax returns or else he is doing a piss-poor job. i'm also glad WE don't have hte tax returns through Mueller's team as that would also indicate he is doing a piss-poor job.


Not reading my posts again?

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Nymr83 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:11 pm

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I don't often find myself agreeing with Democrats on gun control issues, but I don't like today's house bill at all - I see no point in forcing states to accept to each others' concealed carry licenses as I feel each state should be allowed to make its own rules within the bounds of the Second Amendment.

I do, however, enjoy the irony that a bill like this is only possible because of the mid-20th century bastardization of the Commerce Clause that the left used to bring basically everything within the confines of the federal government.

It has no chance in the Senate anyway, so I guess this was just a big group hug for their supporters at the NRA
Well, I've got nothing against the bunt, in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. -Earl Weaver

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Lefty Specialist » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:30 pm

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Just a way to keep those NRA donations flowing.
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:34 pm

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Ceetar wrote:here's a handy cheat sheet: If it comes out of Trump, or Sander's mouth it's almost definitely not a fact.

Condescending bullshit, no one can lie about everything and get away with it in this
day and age. The very same thing could be said of Bill and Hill and if you want to argue
that you can spit into the wind all you want.

I hate fucking Trump, but the news is not honest any more. Fakey fake.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Nymr83 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:49 pm

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Image
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Edgy MD » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:28 am

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Al Green's impeachment measure fails, with 364 voting to table it and 58 voting to move ahead. It's a starting point.

“As I have said before, this is not about Democrats, it is about democracy. It is not about Republicans, it is about the fate of our Republic. May everyone vote their conscience knowing that history will judge us all.”

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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Ceetar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:33 am

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d'Kong76 wrote:
Ceetar wrote:here's a handy cheat sheet: If it comes out of Trump, or Sander's mouth it's almost definitely not a fact.

Condescending bullshit, no one can lie about everything and get away with it in this
day and age. The very same thing could be said of Bill and Hill and if you want to argue
that you can spit into the wind all you want.

I hate fucking Trump, but the news is not honest any more. Fakey fake.


the news is not any less honest. There's more fake news and garbage, but I don't think the Times for instance, is any less honest than they were, they just get exposed more because the general populace has more access to knowledge.

as for Trump, literally everything he says is a campaign push/propaganda. Literally. This is not hyperbole. He does not speak to inform us, he speaks at us to push his agenda, nothing else. Some of it, blind squirrel style, is fact based in science, but the rest is just propaganda or stuff he heard on an entertainment television station.
"Look, would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?"

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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:16 am

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Oddsmakers are giving Roy Moore an 80% chance to win the Alabama special election. When it's all said and done, Al Franken won't be in the Senate, but Roy Moore will. That's because the GOP plays to win. Democrats will have scored a moral point, but Neil Gorsuch is on the bench for decades and Citizens United will be the law of the land for the rest of everybody's life here. Meanwhile, Trump is rapidly filling up the 100 lower court vacancies that were stolen from Obama in an en masse Merrick Garland-style blockade with extreme right-wing radicals.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby seawolf17 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:19 am

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:Oddsmakers are giving Roy Moore an 80% chance to win the Alabama special election. When it's all said and done, Al Franken won't be in the Senate, but Roy Moore will. That's because the GOP plays to win. Democrats will have scored a moral point, but Neil Gorsuch is on the bench for decades and Citizens United will be the law of the land for the rest of everybody's life here. Meanwhile, Trump is rapidly filling up the 100 lower court vacancies that were stolen from Obama in an en masse Merrick Garland-style blockade with extreme right-wing radicals.

Yup. All of this, which is why we're screwed well beyond 2018 no matter what impeachment proceedings do or don't happen OR what happens in November's elections.
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Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Ceetar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:40 am

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when/if adults are in charge of the government again I think we need to revoke lifetime appointments and put in some measures of accountability for judges.
"Look, would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?"

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:46 am

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seawolf17 wrote:
batmagadanleadoff wrote:Oddsmakers are giving Roy Moore an 80% chance to win the Alabama special election. When it's all said and done, Al Franken won't be in the Senate, but Roy Moore will. That's because the GOP plays to win. Democrats will have scored a moral point, but Neil Gorsuch is on the bench for decades and Citizens United will be the law of the land for the rest of everybody's life here. Meanwhile, Trump is rapidly filling up the 100 lower court vacancies that were stolen from Obama in an en masse Merrick Garland-style blockade with extreme right-wing radicals.

Yup. All of this, which is why we're screwed well beyond 2018 no matter what impeachment proceedings do or don't happen OR what happens in November's elections.


Impeachment? Please. When the Dems could put 67 of themselves into the Senate, then we can talk about impeachment.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Nymr83 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:04 am

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Ceetar wrote:when/if adults are in charge of the government again I think we need to revoke lifetime appointments and put in some measures of accountability for judges.


What would that accountability be? I'm sure everyone on the right would be thrilled to kick out all the liberal judges they accuse of legislating from the bench. Be careful what you ask for.

I would strongly favor implementing a fixed term of service that is not life long, though.
Well, I've got nothing against the bunt, in its place. But most of the time that place is the bottom of a long-forgotten closet. -Earl Weaver

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Ceetar » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:09 am

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Nymr83 wrote:
Ceetar wrote:when/if adults are in charge of the government again I think we need to revoke lifetime appointments and put in some measures of accountability for judges.


What would that accountability be? I'm sure everyone on the right would be thrilled to kick out all the liberal judges they accuse of legislating from the bench. Be careful what you ask for.


I'm not sure. But for one you can't let this administration have placed so many unqualified and partisan judges in such an underhanded and undemocratic method and just let them sit there for 40 years. that sets this country back decades.

Would changing it to a 20 year term be that bad?

I dunno, it has to be something non-partisan in some way so that each new administration doesn't actually control/switch another branch of government, but the appointing of judges is already too intertwined with the executive branch elections and it's a problem.
"Look, would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?"

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:11 am

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20 years instead of lifetime does sound like a good idea.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:13 am

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Nymr83 wrote:
Ceetar wrote:when/if adults are in charge of the government again I think we need to revoke lifetime appointments and put in some measures of accountability for judges.


What would that accountability be? I'm sure everyone on the right would be thrilled to kick out all the liberal judges they accuse of legislating from the bench. Be careful what you ask for.

I would strongly favor implementing a fixed term of service that is not life long, though.


What the hell does that even mean -- "legislating from the bench"? It's a bullshit trope the arch conservatives invented to denigrate liberal judicial rulings. The only thing that the liberal judges are doing is interpreting the Constitution. Neil Gorsuch is a dangerous extreme right-wing radical who would never ever have been confirmed under any administration and senate had the filibuster remained in place. The GOP didn't need to install a Neil Gorsuch to advance the conservative agenda. That was overkill by orders of magnitude. Neil Gorsuch 's appointment was a big sadistic fuck you to his detractors.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:16 am

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:20 years instead of lifetime does sound like a good idea.

Pipe dream: a public vote every ten years on whether a sitting judge should continue
serving would be nice.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:19 am

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d'Kong76 wrote:
Benjamin Grimm wrote:20 years instead of lifetime does sound like a good idea.

Pipe dream: a public vote every ten years on whether a sitting judge should continue
serving would be nice.


Voting for judges will make the problem a million times worse. Bad idea.

Re: Politics in 2017

Postby Lefty Specialist » Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:21 am

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Agreed, voting for judges just turns them into politicians. I'd be okay with a 20-year term; that insulates them from partisan politics but keeps 90-year-old geezers off the bench.
Only in today's America can policy be based on the notion that the rich have too little and the poor have too much.

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