Political rhetoric in baseball forum

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Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby Ceetar » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:21 am

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d'Kong76 wrote:
Ceetar wrote:
d'Kong76 wrote:I'm not following the political thing going on here very closely.


..is something Donald Trump would say.


Perhaps... you think I'm Trumpesque?


No. I think I've seen you write on a piece of paper, so therefore you've already demonstrated abilities above and beyond.
"Look, would it save you a lot of time if I just gave up and went mad now?"

-Ceetar, the Optimistic Mets Fan

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby SteveJRogers » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:55 am

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d'Kong76 wrote:I'll also add that batmag's style of twisting things around like he's done in
this thread is old and aggravating.

The whole a) please don't use name in a negative/derogatory manner b) turned
into what if I use Vic's/Lunche's/G's name c) and then please tell me what you'd
like and I'll be more than happy to comply is just childish and maddening (to me).

Don't post peoples names in a MEAN MANNER... it's very simple.


For the record, I believe you admonished me, not in a bad way, for saying Lunchie's IRL name with a posting a "feel good piece" about him in a journal that had to do with his IRL profession.

In other words, if in a social networking platform where users operate a certain way when it comes to interactions (real names, discussion of IRL issues, etc) it is best to adhere to how they conduct themselves, even if its to shed light on an issue, good or bad.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby d'Kong76 » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:11 pm

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Kinda rings a bell, but I don't recall the details. (that's my Reagan, not my
Trump, Señor Ceetar)

Use Lunchie's name here in negative/derogatory light here going forward
and the post will be edited or deleted at our discretion though!

Can anyone imagine if someone typed cooby's real name here and called her
a frog face? My PM inbox would explode.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby cooby » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:31 pm

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I doubt it. For one thing I look more like a rabbit. Just ask my sister

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:34 pm

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Whether the post is nice or nasty, nobody should ever post anybody's real name here, ever. (The only exception would be if people want to post their own names.)

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:05 pm

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d'Kong76 wrote:I'll also add that batmag's style of twisting things around like he's done in
this thread is old and aggravating.

The whole a) please don't use name in a negative/derogatory manner b) turned
into what if I use Vic's/Lunche's/G's name c) and then please tell me what you'd
like and I'll be more than happy to comply is just childish and maddening (to me).

Don't post peoples names in a MEAN MANNER... it's very simple.


The problem with your post is that I don't twist things around. You just don't always understand a joke when you see it.

The other problem with your post, and all the others trying to make policy is that they still don't answer a fundamental question that goes directly to the post I wrote here that kickstarted this whole discussion. The post was about the Flint water scandal and my question -- that still hasn't been addressed no matter how many different ways and styles I used to ask the question --- is what about linking to a newsworthy item that has broad interest and includes a poster's real name? Broad interest like a Mets book review because this is a Mets forum. Or broad interest like the Flint water scandal because that's a major national story. There's still no answer to that.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:08 pm

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I would say go ahead and link it, but don't mention, explicitly or implicitly, that it references anyone who posts here.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:31 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:I would say go ahead and link it, but don't mention, explicitly or implicitly, that it references anyone who posts here.


Great post. From the neutral mod with the logical voice of reason. Not like some of the others.


OE: What about copying and pasting? Excerpts, of course.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby SteveJRogers » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:16 pm

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:The other problem with your post, and all the others trying to make policy is that they still don't answer a fundamental question that goes directly to the post I wrote here that kickstarted this whole discussion. The post was about the Flint water scandal and my question -- that still hasn't been addressed no matter how many different ways and styles I used to ask the question --- is what about linking to a newsworthy item that has broad interest and includes a poster's real name? Broad interest like a Mets book review because this is a Mets forum. Or broad interest like the Flint water scandal because that's a major national story. There's still no answer to that.


The problem, as pointed out in my example, is SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE POSTER THEMSELVES DOING IT!

JCL posts a link to something that mentions his name and day job, fine.

I do it without permission, hell even if it was a sweet story of JCL's Big Cauldron talking up his relationship with Bucket and The Mets, and presenting it with Bucket's real name, its still a bit of a line crossing moment when its clear JCL doesn't really want his life streams to cross that freely.

Does that make sense to you? Its not so much that you do it, its that you are doing it in a place that they wouldn't want you to do that.

There are reasons why noted persons have pages on Facebook for fan interaction beyond their Facebook profiles. There are reasons why some podcast hosts I know use stage names on their FB profiles, despite using a real name on their show.

Its all about keeping aspects of their lives seperate on different social network platforms. So yes doing it without MGIM's permission is very much a big deal. What if someone figured out who you are, poked around and did the same as what you are doing? "Public Figure" or not?

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:41 pm

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SteveJRogers wrote:
batmagadanleadoff wrote:The other problem with your post, and all the others trying to make policy is that they still don't answer a fundamental question that goes directly to the post I wrote here that kickstarted this whole discussion. The post was about the Flint water scandal and my question -- that still hasn't been addressed no matter how many different ways and styles I used to ask the question --- is what about linking to a newsworthy item that has broad interest and includes a poster's real name? Broad interest like a Mets book review because this is a Mets forum. Or broad interest like the Flint water scandal because that's a major national story. There's still no answer to that.


The problem, as pointed out in my example, is SOMEONE OTHER THAN THE POSTER THEMSELVES DOING IT!

JCL posts a link to something that mentions his name and day job, fine.

I do it without permission, hell even if it was a sweet story of JCL's Big Cauldron talking up his relationship with Bucket and The Mets, and presenting it with Bucket's real name, its still a bit of a line crossing moment when its clear JCL doesn't really want his life streams to cross that freely.

Does that make sense to you? Its not so much that you do it, its that you are doing it in a place that they wouldn't want you to do that.

There are reasons why noted persons have pages on Facebook for fan interaction beyond their Facebook profiles. There are reasons why some podcast hosts I know use stage names on their FB profiles, despite using a real name on their show.

Its all about keeping aspects of their lives seperate on different social network platforms. So yes doing it without MGIM's permission is very much a big deal. What if someone figured out who you are, poked around and did the same as what you are doing? "Public Figure" or not?


_____________


SteveJRogers wrote: Does that make sense to you?


Hardly any of it.

First of all, I never typed a poster's real name and I never would. And that's been my attitude for as long as I've been here. So there's that before this next clusterfuck spins more out of control than it already has and the underlying facts get crazier and crazier with each new post.

Second of all, I think you're mostly wrong about your JCL analogy. If he's on a podcast discussing the Mets, that's fair game. It's of central interest here because this is a Mets forum, we care about all things Mets and JCL has a following through his own web site and as the author of a couple of published Mets books. Also, I find it absurd that JCL would participate in a podcast accessible all over most of the planet Earth to discuss things he doesn't want anyone to listen to. But that's your hypothetical set of facts, not mine.

Any piece discussing one of his Mets books is also totally fair game here. Me, I would never post a link here to a negative review of one of his books for personal reasons, but also, because I wouldn't do that to any poster here, not just JCL. I'm not aware of a negative JCL review either, but that's besides the point. But it's fair game. I wouldn't think it's wrong if another poster posted a bad review of the Met book. It's a Mets book and this is a Mets forum and the book(s) are for public consumption, available on book sites like Amazon and in brick and mortar book stores. The Mets books are public matters so don't go equating posting a Mets book review with someone stalking JCL on his private time to post personal info about where JCL dines or where JCL shops for his underwear, which is not the same thing and which I would be the first to tell you is totally out of bounds. I don't need you to explain to me how wrong that would be.

Next, anyone who has an expectation that their Facebook posts or pics are never gonna end up on some other web site is either a child or an imbecile. Anyone who doesn't want their facebook posts to end up here shouldn't post them in the first place. But that's just principle. For the record, I agree with you at least in the sense that I wouldn't post some other members' facebook posts here. But that's based on my personal makeup. Posting facebook posts might be appropriate depending on the context. It's a case by case thing really. I'm not sure there should be a firm one size fits all rule on this one. Anyway, me, I wouldn't post facebook posts here. But I don't know what kind of rule there should be on facebook posts, if any. This scandal isn't about facebook anyways.


SteveJRogers wrote:So yes doing it without MGIM's permission is very much a big deal. What if someone figured out who you are, poked around and did the same as what you are doing? "Public Figure" or not?


Whaddya mean public figure or not? That is the point. That's the whole point. A public figure has no right of privacy when acting in his capacity as a public figure and shouldn't be heard to complain when those actions go whizzing around the net. You guys should talk. You have wifey threads where you scope out which girl some fringy Mets scrub was dating five girlfriends ago. Then you find that girl and you post every little sliver of humiliating info you can dig up on her no matter how embarrassing. A facebook photo of her shitting on her toilet? You'd post that photo here in giant size. If she had a 10 year old warrant for drunk driving, you'd post that, too. Talk about a fucking hypocrisy. What if Jerry Seinfeld joined this forum? He's a big Mets fan so it's possible. It's likelier that Jerry'd join up here than Kanye West. Would that mean that we can no longer link to anything about Seinfeld that appears on other web sites. See how ridiculous you sound?

Are these ideas really well thought out and fair and neutral? Or are they mainly reverse engineered with the main purpose being to stick it to me?

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby SteveJRogers » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:11 pm

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:First of all, I never typed a poster's real name and I never would. And that's been my attitude for as long as I've been here. So there's that before this next clusterfuck spins more out of control than it already has and the underlying facts get crazier and crazier with each new post.


Pretty sure I did not utter JCL's real name either

Second of all, I think you're mostly wrong about your JCL analogy. If he's on a podcast discussing the Mets, that's fair game. It's of central interest here because this is a Mets forum, we care about all things Mets and JCL has a following through his own web site and as the author of a couple of published Mets books. Also, I find it absurd that JCL would participate in a podcast accessible all over most of the planet Earth to discuss things he doesn't want anyone to listen to. But that's your hypothetical set of facts, not mine.


Of course, but if JCL wants to keep whatever illusion he has of anonymity on this forum, and yeah that is pretty much out the window once someone clicks on that MBTN link and puts two-and-two together. Not to mention, yeah he does quite often promote his books, appearances and whatnot, that is his prerogative, and his alone. Hence it wasn't a good idea for me to stumble upon that piece about his IRL when I really know him here, FB/Instagram and a few hours of non-cyber interaction and plaster it here without his permission.

Any piece discussing one of his Mets books is also totally fair game here. Me, I would never post a link here to a negative review of one of his books for personal reasons, but also, because I wouldn't do that to any poster here, not just JCL. I'm not aware of a negative JCL review either, but that's besides the point. But it's fair game. I wouldn't think it's wrong if another poster posted a bad review of the Met book. It's a Mets book and this is a Mets forum and the book(s) are for public consumption, available on book sites like Amazon and in brick and mortar book stores. The Mets books are public matters so don't go equating posting a Mets book review with someone stalking JCL on his private time to post personal info about where JCL dines or where JCL shops for his underwear, which is not the same thing and which I would be the first to tell you is totally out of bounds. I don't need you to explain to me how wrong that would be.


Ummm...at what point did I say we couldn't post reviews, bad or otherwise? Maybe I'd post a ridiculous review for JCL and others to have at it in a "does this troll have better things to do" or "did this person read, or not get the purpose and premise of the book?" If I felt it was legit criticism, and it didn't seem that JCL, or Greg even, weren't aware of it, I'd let them know privately and have them deal with it as they may.

Not sure how we went from "personal data found in an email embedded in an MILive article" to "bad reviews" and all the way back to "stalking a member of a message board" but the former and the latter are much more related to each other in terms of what you were trying to do with MGIM.

Next, anyone who has an expectation that their Facebook posts or pics are never gonna end up on some other web site is either a child or an imbecile. Anyone who doesn't want their facebook posts to end up here shouldn't post them in the first place. But that's just principle. For the record, I agree with you at least in the sense that I wouldn't post some other members' facebook posts here. But that's based on my personal makeup. Posting facebook posts might be appropriate depending on the context. It's a case by case thing really. I'm not sure there should be a firm one size fits all rule on this one. Anyway, me, I wouldn't post facebook posts here. But I don't know what kind of rule there should be on facebook posts, if any. This scandal isn't about facebook anyways.


WHAT!? No I mean, I know what you are saying, but how did that get mixed up in this? Okay, I'm guessing the Facebook thread, where posters will be all [quote=Someone I knew in High School but haven't seen or heard from since about a year ago when I connected on FB]Today I made waffles for the first time since High School cooking classes 32 years ago![/quote]

Okay, I see what you are saying, and I see what the posters are doing, assuming that the FB friends never know that they are being plastered, but at the same time, it is a theft of privacy, and I'm glad you'd think I'd agree on that point.


SteveJRogers wrote:So yes doing it without MGIM's permission is very much a big deal. What if someone figured out who you are, poked around and did the same as what you are doing? "Public Figure" or not?


Whaddya mean public figure or not? That is the point. That's the whole point. A public figure has no right of privacy when acting in his capacity as a public figure and shouldn't be heard to complain when those actions go whizzing around the net.


For the record, are we about to have a debate over the degrees of public figure MGIM is/was? And whether his actions should be brought up in relations to topics around here in general that have little to do with it?

Ditto for that matter JCL or Greg, if you want to do apples and oranges. Granted MGIM has/had a bigger profile, but at the same time, slings and arrows hurled at his public job performance would be greater and make a greater impact on a personal level than trashy reviews of MBTN or Greg's books. Either way, it was pretty clear that he rarely brought any of that up HERE (where conversations are kind of focused on a New York based baseball team and people mostly in the New York area) during that time period, hence it probably would be in people's best interest not to touch that whole situation. No matter how tempting it could be in the GDF sandbox when political discussions and social failures are brought up.

You guys should talk. You have wifey threads where you scope out which girl some fringy Mets scrub was dating five girlfriends ago. Then you find that girl and you post every little sliver of humiliating info you can dig up on her no matter how embarrassing. A facebook photo of her shitting on her toilet? You'd post that photo here in giant size. If she had a 10 year old warrant for drunk driving, you'd post that, too.


LOL! That is not me you are talking to. And yeah, I do find that thread a bit disturbing, a long with other fringy Met scrub tidbits that get used for thread filler around here as well. Though the latter I'm a bit more lenient in the "who cares, but it fits what this forum is about" way. Hell, I was getting burnt out early on on you and Zvon obsessing over 27 years of photogenic spots all over the Met spring training facility! I mean it fits, but going as far as to name locations based on early Man from Topps solo photos? But you guys do you, whom am I to argue over whether the Sadecki Spot or Butterball Mound should keep its CPF inside joke moniker or not =;)

Though to be fair, no, I don't seem to recall any sort of "over the edge" stuff beyond photos with the hubby/main squeeze, or at least nothing in the vein that you are describing.

Talk about a fucking hypocrisy. What if Jerry Seinfeld joined this forum? He's a big Mets fan so it's possible. It's likelier that Jerry'd join up here than Kanye West. Would that mean that we can no longer link to anything about Seinfeld that appears on other web sites. See how ridiculous you sound?


To be fair, if Jerry were here, and an active member, would it be appropriate to bring up a couple of months/years old article that presented him in a bad light or did a hatchet job on him in the context of whatever GDF political arena you thought it would be appropriate to go after him with?

And if he posted as a variation of JerrySeinfeld, then yeah, I'd imagine anyone posting positive news about him, Comedians In Cars, etc would be fair game over in the Member Promotion form without his consent. If not, then its probably would be clear that despite we knowing who it is, he probably wants that illusion of anonymity that I was talking before with Lunchbucket.

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:32 am

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Steve, let me see if I can wrap this topic up. It's getting a little tiring and everybody, it seems, including me, is talking in circles. Also, my head's spinning in circles a little bit as I try to figure out your post and wonder if now all of a sudden there's gonna be another rule where this time, I'm gonna also be prevented from writing posts about Huggins-Stengel Field.

I don't think I did anything inappropriate even though I deleted the controversial portion of that post. The guy was Press Secretary to his Governor, and politics should be the most public topic that there is. And I posted a piece that was totally about his actions while on the clock and in his capacity as the press secretary to the most powerful person in Michigan state politics. No. Actually that's not entirely true. Betsy Devos is the most powerful person in Michigan state politics and she's not even a politician. If Betsy wanted to, she could snap her fingers and Gov. Snyder would eat a five pound box of prunes and then stick that ten inch dildo molded in the shape of Jesus up his own ass with his own two hands until the diarrhea shit from all those prunes Betsy forced him to eat flowed all over the ten inch dildo molded in the shape of Jesus if that's what Betsy Devos wanted. And after the Snyder prune induced shitstorm, he'd put that shit drenched ten inch dildo molded in the shape of Jesus inside of his mouth if that's also what Betsy wanted. Actually, that may not be entirely true either because Snyder's political career is likely kaput at the end of his term if not sooner. So maybe Devos no longer has the leverage over Snyder that she typically has over every other Republican politician in Michigan. Whatever. Soon she's gonna be the U.S. Secretary of Education even though, as Charles Pierce suggests, in a fair and just world, Betsy wouldn't even qualify to work the cafeteria lunch line of any school.

But I digress.

I hope that NYmr83 doesn't blow a gasket and call for my banning because I made an off topic comment about Betsy Devos in a thread that isn't about Betsy Devos. Heavens to Betsy.

Your friend,
The Primary Bad Actor

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby cooby » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:43 am

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You know, until this thread came along, back along I should say, I didn't even know MGIM worked for the Michigan government. I just thought he was a nice guy from Michigan who likes the Mets. I still think that.

Let's just agree to use our nicknames here. Yes, a bunch of you have websites, etc, but honestly, we use nicknames here for a reason. Some small degree of privacy from the outside world who just happen to stop off once and maybe that's it. If we know each others' names, fine, but those other people don't need to read them here.


Not to mention, yeah he does quite often promote his books, appearances and whatnot,


BTW I first read this as 'looks', Go JCL!

Re: Political rhetoric in baseball forum

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:40 pm

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cooby wrote:You know, until this thread came along, back along I should say, I didn't even know MGIM worked for the Michigan government. I just thought he was a nice guy from Michigan who likes the Mets.


Same here. Except that when I demonstrated that I didn't know that he worked for his Governor, I got blasted for it by one particular poster for not knowing and then got personally attacked for my troubles, where he insulted me by insinuating that I flipped hamburgers for a living. Not that there's anything wrong with flipping hamburgers but this poster clearly meant it in a mean-spirited way in order to diminish me. When I defended myself, Edgy immediately jumped in to call me a martyr because that's what he always does when I respond to these posts that abuse me. I guess calling me "martyr" is supposed to deny all of the unchecked abuse I have to endure here. And the way the hamburger poster carried on against me, you would've thought I didn't have a clue as to who Abraham Lincoln was instead of not knowing what MGIM does, or did, for a living. But MGM's job, apparently, isn't a top secret here because most of the forum members here know what he does professionally.

Nobody ever defends me against these posts. Now I'm supposed to know that MGIM worked for his Governor, but when I show that now I damn well know who he works for, it's another crisis with just about everybody who then weighed in on this latest clusterfuck taking his side even though he's a public figure who, in his capacity as Press Secretary, appears not only in his home state papers, but in national interest papers like the New York Times -- not that I'd copy and paste or link to it.

Your post is reasonable and I've got nothing against it. I'm just using it as a springboard to write this post. The other thing that galls me about this incident, which I know to be 100% true even though I can't prove it, is that if the roles were reversed and I was the one who worked for that Governor and somebody else here wrote that post that's generating this discussion, nobody would've stuck up for me and the consensus then would be that anything on the web is fair game, especially if it's about a public figure acting in his capacity as a public figure. And the jackass who wrote that I-flip-hamburgers-post would've jumped in to tell me that if I didn't like the post, I shouldn't have taken the public figure job in the first place.

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