SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Now with twice as many ways to evaluate the greatness and suckitude of the Mets.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Ashie62 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:54 am

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d'Kong76 wrote:Batmag: Must you raise your leg and pee on everything when you get the urge?


Thats Odell Beckham's turf.
Make the Mets great again.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 am

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Frayed Knot wrote:
This is beginning to seem a bit like your draft/tanking argument....

Here your starting point is that Sewald's season was one of extreme highs and lows even when compared to other NYM relievers....

You then went through a whole lot of math to essentially tell me that Blevins had the better ERA which I was quite aware of. I'm also aware, as are you, that reliever ERA is only marginally interesting.


So now you wanna undercut my point that Sewald was significantly worse than Blevins by noting how meaningless reliever ERA is?

Let's go to WAR to show you how bad Sewald was compared to Blevins.

Blevins --- 1.5 WAR/49 IP
Sewald --- 0.2 WAR/65.1 IP.

At the qualitative rate of performance that Sewald pitched in 2017, he would have had to pitch precisely 490 innings to accumulate the 1.5 WAR that Blevins amassed in just 65.1 innings. Sewald won't get to pitch 490 major league inning in his entire life. How much more straining are you gonna engage in to counter my posts here mainly because it's me and because you've committed yourself to the wrong idea that Sewald and Blevins were somehow close to each other performance-wise?
Last edited by batmagadanleadoff on Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby batmagadanleadoff » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:39 am

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Vic Sage wrote:i think Mags is right, mathematically, that a system that awards (+) for good performances, but no (-) for bad perfs is likely to favor players with larger swings in their perfs. That's just math, right? But i don't know that it necessarily effected the Sewald vote, and i don't know that it matters a bit either way. The Schaeffer is not an attempt to create an unassailable new sabrmetric statistic, but is merely a way to keep everybody together and interactive over the course of a long season. And the "player of the year" is a way to keep a diary of our thoughts over the year, and from year to year. We've built a history together and the Schaefer is one of the ways we've recorded that history.

I don't think it's a breach of conduct to offer critique of the system, perhaps toward evolving it as we move forward, and the day the results are announced are exactly the time to have that conversation. But as i said, i don't care to improve it; it's "accuracy" is only important in that it accurately reflect what the board is feeling at any given moment, and cumulatively, and creates a record of those judgments. Perhaps the creation of a negative score option would allow for that, but I leave that to Ben to decide. Mr. Grimm does a great job of keeping it all going despite widespread lack of involvement. I participate sporadically each season (even some games that i just evaluate by the box score and news reports) but i tend to lose my will over the course of a bad year. I'll try to do better next season, and hopefully the Mets will too.


I agree with your post and I've said so before when I first raised this flaw -- that Schaefer is fun and that it mainly exists to have that fun and as a social function to drive the forum's activity. It shouldn't be relied upon as an accurate statistical measure of a player's worth.

Having said that, I'm surprised at the resistance my post drew. (Not really surprised. I'm merely saying that out of politeness. Like anyone else here would've generated those responses other than me.) Convoluted arguments to try and show that Sewald, if not the best reliever, was close to the best. And then the GOP gun control mantra --- "Now's not the time to talk about this". Hey Kong: When was the right time to have had this discussion?

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:56 am

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batmagadanleadoff wrote:Having said that, I'm surprised at the resistance my post drew. (Not really surprised. I'm merely saying that out of politeness. Like anyone else here would've generated those responses other than me.)

I wish you knew how silly the tortured martyrdom routine is to 96.875%* of
the people who read it year after year after year.

batmagadanleadoff wrote:And then the GOP gun control mantra --- "Now's not the time to talk about this". Hey Kong: When was the right time to have had this discussion?

I apologize, urinate on anything you like (except the electronics).


*+/- 0.125%
"That pitch was a foot off the strike zone!" "The catcher framed it for the ump." "Framed?" "Yes, he helped the ump turn the pitch into a strike." "But it didn't cross the plate." "Naturally."

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby John Cougar Lunchbucket » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:27 pm

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Vic Sage wrote:i think Mags is right, mathematically, that a system that awards (+) for good performances, but no (-) for bad perfs is likely to favor players with larger swings in their perfs. That's just math, right? But i don't know that it necessarily effected the Sewald vote, and i don't know that it matters a bit either way. The Schaeffer is not an attempt to create an unassailable new sabrmetric statistic, but is merely a way to keep everybody together and interactive over the course of a long season. And the "player of the year" is a way to keep a diary of our thoughts over the year, and from year to year. We've built a history together and the Schaefer is one of the ways we've recorded that history.

I don't think it's a breach of conduct to offer critique of the system, perhaps toward evolving it as we move forward, and the day the results are announced are exactly the time to have that conversation. But as i said, i don't care to improve it; it's "accuracy" is only important in that it accurately reflect what the board is feeling at any given moment, and cumulatively, and creates a record of those judgments. Perhaps the creation of a negative score option would allow for that, but I leave that to Ben to decide. Mr. Grimm does a great job of keeping it all going despite widespread lack of involvement. I participate sporadically each season (even some games that i just evaluate by the box score and news reports) but i tend to lose my will over the course of a bad year. I'll try to do better next season, and hopefully the Mets will too.


What he said.

Mags didn;t pee on anything from where I sit
Let me tell you something: I have a big set of balls.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:50 pm

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I agree with Vic's post and hell I agree with batmag's assertions/analysis.

There is a buzzkill factor - saying in essence that Shaefer sucks and here's why -
hours after the year's results for the year are presented is pretty piss-y to me. I
assure everyone I'll reel in my delicate sensibilities (and fondness for the tradition)
and not utter another word on the subject.
"That pitch was a foot off the strike zone!" "The catcher framed it for the ump." "Framed?" "Yes, he helped the ump turn the pitch into a strike." "But it didn't cross the plate." "Naturally."

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Edgy MD » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:00 pm

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That PotM timeline (BRUCE-CONFORTO-DEGROM-DEGROM-CESPEDES-REYES) is a pretty good summary of the season.

The best hitters the first two months were guys (Bruce and Conforto) who would be memories by the end of the season. The middle of the season was four days of futility, waiting for the day our number-one starter (deGrom) might give a glimpse of what a winning team looks like. Céspedes took until August to get untracked, before also disappearing for the rest of the year, and the last month was lineups stocked with fill-in players, best embodied by Reyes, playing wherever on the field, batting wherever in the lineup, playing out the string, trying to tack on to their year-end stats.

An array of what went right can sometimes be a map of what went wrong.
I'll be your patron saint of heartbreak.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Frayed Knot » Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:11 pm

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My only points were that, despite him being a virtual unknown when the year started, Sewald was probably, at worst, a top three NYM reliever this year; that I didn't think his season was particularly given
to extremes in performance; and that 'Schaefer' placing him in an essential dead heat with the other two probable top guys hardly makes that a flaw in the system.

And of course this argument will be taken up/extended later on when we get around to our year-end Top-30 ranking project, in which the Schaefer results will play only a minor role.
Y'see even in CPF-land, Schaefer results don't wind up being the final word.
Would that i'twere so simple

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby G-Fafif » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:04 pm

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Based on cumulative voting totals reflecting positive contributions on a game-by-game basis, twenty-one non-relief pitching Mets were deemed better than any single Mets relief pitcher across an entire season. That might be the underlying story here.

I do like that Sewald card, though.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:15 pm

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Sewald did win with, by a considerable margin, the lowest total ever for a leading reliever.

PREVIOUS WINNERS:
2006 - Billy Wagner, 40.39 points; 2007 - Aaron Heilman, 34.86; 2008 - Aaron Heilman, 34.50; 2009 - Francisco Rodriguez, 38.58; 2010 - Hisanori Takahashi 28.69; 2011 - Pedro Beato, 25.93; 2012 - Bobby Parnell, 29.01; 2013 - LaTroy Hawkins, 32.30; 2014 - Carlos Torres, 35.75; 2015 - Jeurys Familia, 35.85; 2016 - Jeurys Familia, 36.70.


But how about the fact that Jacob deGrom was the only pitcher who finished in the Top Eleven? If Jacob deGrom didn't exist, the winner would have been Robert Gsellman, with nearly 55 fewer points than deGrom had!

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby G-Fafif » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:21 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:Sewald did win with, by a considerable margin, the lowest total ever for a leading reliever.

PREVIOUS WINNERS:
2006 - Billy Wagner, 40.39 points; 2007 - Aaron Heilman, 34.86; 2008 - Aaron Heilman, 34.50; 2009 - Francisco Rodriguez, 38.58; 2010 - Hisanori Takahashi 28.69; 2011 - Pedro Beato, 25.93; 2012 - Bobby Parnell, 29.01; 2013 - LaTroy Hawkins, 32.30; 2014 - Carlos Torres, 35.75; 2015 - Jeurys Familia, 35.85; 2016 - Jeurys Familia, 36.70.


But how about the fact that Jacob deGrom was the only pitcher who finished in the Top Eleven? If Jacob deGrom didn't exist, the winner would have been Robert Gsellman, with nearly 55 fewer points than deGrom had!


Pedro Beato's self-esteem has suddenly shot skyward.

If Jacob deGrom hadn't existed, I might have preferred the 2017 Mets not doing so, either.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:28 pm

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Oops, somehow I scanned past Beato's 25.93 points in 2011. Sewald's 22.41 is still the lowest, but not by as considerable a margin as I first thought.

Hisanori Takahashi in 2010? If I had a thousand guesses, I wouldn't have come up with that.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:32 pm

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Oh, and here's where I thank all of our wonderful Schaefer spokesmodels who did such a great job throughout the year. We had 36 who carried over from last year, plus 18 new ones added for 2017. Currently, there are no plans to expand the list for 2018, but we'll see what happens.



CLASS OF 2016
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CLASS OF 2017
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Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby G-Fafif » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:41 pm

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Takahashi was a capable closer, pressed into a new role when K-Rod went out for the year (injured after his suspension). Eight saves for a mediocre club otherwise going through the late-season motions, Would probably be the No. 2 starter on the 2017 Mets, too.

Miss Rheingold got all the publicity, but Schaefer voting attracts some very attractive spokespeople.
“And if anyone tries to tell you it can't be done, remember the Mets. If they can do it, we can do it.”
—John V. Lindsay, 1969

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Edgy MD » Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:46 pm

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We should have a vote-off on who the best Schaefer spokesperson was.

I dig how b/w characters got b/w colorpath backgrounds.
I'll be your patron saint of heartbreak.

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby d'Kong76 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:00 pm

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It's a brilliant line-up, isn't it. I don't really remember the Canadian geese
but somehow I have some kind of deja vu thing that I've said that before.
"That pitch was a foot off the strike zone!" "The catcher framed it for the ump." "Framed?" "Yes, he helped the ump turn the pitch into a strike." "But it didn't cross the plate." "Naturally."

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby 41Forever » Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:00 pm

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Edgy MD wrote:We should have a vote-off on who the best Schaefer spokesperson was.

I dig how b/w characters got b/w colorpath backgrounds.


I love that Cleon Jones just appears among the ax murders, killer sea creatures, strangling snakes, flesh-ripping monkeys, backpack girl and the other colorful characters!

Is that Maga in there above the ax-wielding young lady?

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby Benjamin Grimm » Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:46 pm

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It's Maja.

I don't do "maga".

Re: SCHAEFER METS PLAYERS OF THE YEAR 2017

Postby 41Forever » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:07 pm

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Benjamin Grimm wrote:It's Maja.

I don't do "maga".


Lol! Just caught that.

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